This has gone on long enough.

[reipan]

Dear Christianity,

Look, for the most part you're a decent sort. (Yes, I said it.) But there are a couple of things I'd just like to get cleared up with you.

First off, you're not all prejudiced, but where you are prejudiced, you're all as bad as each other. Don't try to tell me that because you belong to a certain sect of the religion you're "better" than another Christian. I've seen idiocy in equal amounts from Catholics and Protestants alike.

Secondly, your holy book is wonderful in many ways, but IT IS NOT HISTORICAL FACT. Neither is it the Word of God, although I suppose if one person did a monologue that long it would be full of contradictions. Neither is it the Ultimate Guide to Life. It should not, in this day and age, be taken literally.

Period.

Now can we, as a society, move on?

(Just for the record - it isn't just Christianity that I have problems with. At some later date you will probably all be treated to my gripes about religion of all sorts, including atheism, the big anti-religion. Certain personal circumstances have led me to post the Christianity note first. Hokay?)

Comments

[insteadofdeath.livejournal.com]

Wait, it's not? Cuz the Qur'an IS the Ultimate Guide to Life. (Supposedly.) That's so weird. What's the holy book for, then?

[reipan.livejournal.com]

I'm all for people turning to their holy books for guidance - a lot of people find great spiritual solace in the Bible (and, I'm assuming, the Qur'an). I take issue, however, with people who think that the Bible is their manual and the final authority in all things, and who obey it slavishly. In my opinion, at least, a holy book is for spiritual guidance as opposed to spiritual law.

Perhaps I could have made that clearer. I apologise.

[insteadofdeath.livejournal.com]

I think my confusion arose from the fact that the Qur'an is, well, The Law on how to live in Islam, dictating everything from what children get as inheritance to how you should treat non-Muslims and such. I guess I kinda assumed the Bible was the same.

That just seems really *weird* to me, somehow... *g*

[reipan.livejournal.com]

See, while I might not necessarily agree with some of the things the Qur'an dictates, at least it's generally accepted by Muslims that following the religion is following the Qur'an, right? Not so with Christianity. So far as I know, there are approximately six thousand different debates as to what being a Christian actually means; whether you need to follow the Bible strictly or not, and if you do, which version you should use...It's not as clear-cut as Islam, I don't think.

[insteadofdeath.livejournal.com]

Funnily enough, though, Islam has more different sects than any other religion. (Though, that's a fact taken from my Mom, not any trusted academic source, so don't take my word for it!) And even if it doesn't, it's STILL fairly divided, even within the so-called largest sect, which is what my family and I belong to. There's just a lot of debate on how to interpret the various laws the Qur'an gives us; that, and there's also a lot of holy laws that aren't really holy, and created by Qur'anic scholars based on quotes from various prophets and the Qur'an. And of course you have all the cultural differences, like whether or not to wear the veil, etc. There's even debate on how to read the Qur'an properly. And there's the usual dissatisfaction on just what, exactly, we're allowed to wear.

Uh. That was a really long-winded way to say: There's a lot of debate in Islam as to what being a Muslim actually means, too, and what the Qur'an really says. Islam isn't nearly as clear-cut as it seems.... *g* Just in different ways.

[reipan.livejournal.com]

Really? That's interesting. I'm aware that I am by no means the best-informed about Islam - there was a handful of Muslims in my class on the IB, and I had the in-depth religion discussion with a few of them, but that still makes my knowledge pretty fragmented. Although they did seem to have pretty different ideas about what being a Muslim meant.

(I should warn you at this juncture that I'm one step away from asking what it means to you. *g* If you don't want to answer that question, though, don't worry about it - I'm just curious.)

[insteadofdeath.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty much agnostic at this point (going through the whole 'doubting God' phase), but, well, I'm a pretty typical liberal Sunni girl, in the little habits and things: the Qur'an is never, ever, ever to be put under other books, touched by unwashed hands, disrespected in any way; I don't wear the headscarf; I believe in donating a percentage of my income (if I had income) to charity; and uhh other things.

Mostly, for me, being a Muslim is about respect and your private (meaning, don't brag about being such a good, oh-so-devoted muslim kthxbye) relationship with God. A person who is respectful of others (and even things, esp. the Qur'an itself), honest, giving, etc. is a hundred times a better Muslim (whether or not they even identify as Muslim) because by doing those things they're upholding God's most important priority, which is love and peace and all those good things. But your relationship with God is important too. All the good things you do, do it with Him in mind, and always, always, always be grateful for what you have.

Sorry for the tl;dr response. Once I get going, I get going....

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

With Christianity, I find it very hard to understand how Jesus supposedly loves us all, yet certain Christian groups show so much hate for anyone who isn't straight/pro-life/'normal'.

[reipan.livejournal.com]

True, but in all fairness, those groups of Christians tend to be the exception and not the rule. I find myself more annoyed by the condescending ones - you know, the ones who say "well, you know, you can do what you like. I know it's going to put you in hell, but whatever. Your life. Screw it up if you want to."

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know that they're exceptions - I've not seen any torch-lighting around here yet. :)

[reipan.livejournal.com]

I know - I'm actually sort of disappointed. It'd make life post-exams a lot more interesting.

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

There'd be a Bank Holiday half-price sale on pitchforks!

[reipan.livejournal.com]

They'd be the latest villains on Doctor Who!

...okay, maybe not.

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

Probably better than the villain aliens I thought up the other day. XD

[reipan.livejournal.com]

They'd be better than the Daleks, who appear to be showing up again next week...

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

Really? I thought that next week involved the skeleton astronauts and the enormous library.

[reipan.livejournal.com]

And Daleks. I saw the extended advert yesterday. And also, it seems, Rose...

[cryforthemoon.livejournal.com]

Ah-so - that's the trailer for the whole second half of the series, methinks.

[lonelyinrussia.livejournal.com]

So if you wrote a holy book...I wouldn't have to follow what you've said in it? Oh Niichan, you're so *easy* to worship ^_^

[clauded-horizon.livejournal.com]

The hills are aliiiive with the sound of blender...

[reipan.livejournal.com]

With songs they have sung for about five carrots...

[mewteos.livejournal.com]

I think if the Bible were written today, it'd be a lot tamer. People need to recognize the book is really old and influenced by the prejudices of the time. =X

[reipan.livejournal.com]

True. A lot of the things laid out in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, probably made a lot more sense at the time.

[seemeshining.livejournal.com]

See...I completely disagree.

It IS historical fact. The places described in the Bible have been found, and the Jesus story was written by three different people who had NEVER met one another and were from completely different areas of Jerusalem about 100 years apart.

How is it NOT the Ultimate Guide to Life?

The fact is that the only real RULE that was set fourth in the Bible was the Golden Rule: Treat others the way you want to be treated. That was the ONLY commandment Jesus set down.

How is it not the ultimate guide to life when it teaches you how to be a good person? It teaches morals and values and shows how to be a good person.

I'm sorry, luv, but you're wrong. It IS historical fact. There's tons of proof.

And, yes, you're right...some of the SUGGESTIONS made in the bible by the covenent before Jesus came are completely retarded. That's why Jesus changed it and said to his people to completely ignore all of the old rules and to listen solely to His golden rule.

[reipan.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, but I disagree. While I'm not denying that Jesus existed - there seems enough evidence of that, from sources other than the Bible - I don't necessarily think he was the son of God. He was a good man, and he had ideas ahead of his time; that much I can go with. That doesn't mean that everything written about him was true, or that he was a divine being. You can believe it is if you like; that doesn't make it irrefutable fact.

And the fact that the places mentioned in the Bible are real is neither here nor there. Plenty of fiction is based in places that exist. That doesn't make it all true. They've found ancient Greek temples, but that doesn't mean all the Greek gods once roamed the earth.

The Bible has some moral guidelines in it, yes. But it also spends an awful lot of time telling you that unbelievers are either a) to be cleansed with the fire and sword or b) Just Not Worth Your Time. That's not teaching you how to be a good person. The person who told my sister that she can't be with her boyfriend because he's a Christian, she's a "heathen", and the Bible says they shouldn't be together was not taught by the Bible to be a good person - he was taught to be a judgmental moron. I'm not saying that people who read the Bible are all going to say the same thing. I'm saying that the Bible can produce different reactions in different people - so it's not a guide that everybody can or should follow. It's a holy book, it's not an instruction manual.

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. The fact that you believe it's true doesn't make it so, and the fact that there are some worthy statements in it doesn't make it an instrument to be followed slavishly by all mankind. An interesting book, yes. The Ultimate Guide to Life? Whether you believe in it or not, you can't tell me that every single person in the world should follow it.

[lonelyinrussia.livejournal.com]

Also...the only commandment? How can you say the bible is the ultimate guide to life if you completely ignore one half of it? Unsurprisingly, that just happens to be the half where god is a malicious, conniving, blackmailing, misogynist who contradicts himself about ten times. Also...did you know that what's in the bible was decided by a group of people sat round a table debating what message they wanted the bible to give? There were a hell of a lot of religious writings that didn't make it. Are they fiction?

And those people that you said, writing about Jesus? Yeah...they weren't born until fifty years after he'd supposedly DIED. So, you know, in fifty years we'll get someone to write a story about my life, without use of any of my online accounts, anything I'd written, any way of people recording anything ABOUT ME, and see what mistakes they make. Also, Catholics believe that Mary was a virgin all her life. Despite the fact that the bible lists the names of her other children...fact or fiction?

And whilst we're picking faults here in its truth, did you know that the gospel written closest to the time of Jesus (but still decades after) says nothing about his birth in a stable or any of that crap. That only comes in two gospels later. In fact, those gospels have been described by an expert on the New Testament as clear examples "of invention in the Gospels". E. P. Sanders. Go read his stuff, it might help you off your high horse.

And Jesus was Jewish. They have 613 commandments. Why aren't you following the teachings that Jesus followed?